Transcript of Google Hangout Interview
May 12, 2015
May 12, 2015
What leaders have been inspired by FDR's leadership?
I think a whole number of leaders have been inspired by FDR since the 1940s. The most obvious one that comes to mind is President Lyndon B. Johnson. Johnson really tried to create a second version of the New Deal with his Great Society in the 1960s. Like Roosevelt I think Johnson imagined a democracy that had much more freedom and much more participation by everyday Americans. So the war on poverty of Lyndon B. Johnson, for example, you could directly trace back to FDR’s style of leadership and some of his policies in the New Deal. Of course the main difference though is that Johnson was dealing with 1960s America which was very prosperous whereas FDR was trying to get America out of its worst economic depression in its history. So that would be one person who I think sort of took off the mantle of FDR’s leadership and tried even to take it further.
Are there any others that you know of?
In some ways I think President Barack Obama has really embraced elements of FDR’s presidency. Some of his critics in fact have said he's very much like FDR and is trying to increase the power of the presidency but he's trying to do that I think out of good intentions, to try to expand our democracy, embrace working class Americans, and to try to get through some regulation and legislation that’s much needed to address economic and social inequality in this country. So those would be two examples.
What do you think were Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s most important leadership traits or skills?
Well, I think he had one skill in particular; it was that he inspired faith and hope in Americans and not just political leaders and other wealthier Americans but rather ordinary Americans got inspired by his rhetoric, his Fireside Chats, and his confidence that the American economy would one day bounce back form this depression. Another point I think would be his ability to experiment--he was willing to try new things, to see what worked what didn’t work and try to enhance the things that worked in terms of economic reform and to try to get the economy rolling again. So I think those two things are important. A third important leadership trait was, I think, that the New Deal under his administration was kind of a broker’s state. A broker's state means that he really relied on ordinary Americans to organize and lobby for reform. So many of Roosevelt's most important ideas actually didn’t come from him but came from other groups of Americans who were organizing and pushing for various reforms like old age pensions, social security, the right of labor unions to organize; all of those things became very key parts of the New Deal but none of them were actually Roosevelt's initial ideas. They were ideas that people in the United States organized a lot of other people and pushed him to endorse those ideas.
So how did FDR's confidence, courage, and empathy make him an effective leader?
Well, his confidence was important because people in the early part of the depression especially thought that Capitalism as an economic system had failed...So when he said the only thing to fear is fear itself, a lot of Americans understood what he meant and were really inspired by that idea and inspired by the idea that his leadership would create the confidence in America that would lead America to a better path.
What about courage and empathy?
Well, yeah, FDR was very courageous. He definitely wasn’t a politician who just decided to do more of the same; I think that’s a key difference between him and his predecessor Herbert Hoover who really didn’t inspire Americans in the same way--and you know obviously one thing that's very courageous about FDR is that he was battling his own disability all the while he was trying to lead America and show strength and leadership to America and the rest of the world. And so I think the third thing you mentioned was empathy and I think since Roosevelt had this disability he may have had more empathy than someone else of his particular class and social standing. Franklin Roosevelt was a bit of an aristocrat. He grew up in a very wealthy family and may not have had the ability to relate to the ordinary working class American people who were done on their luck and had various disabilities until he himself had to deal with that.
What would you say about the treatment of women and minorities through FDR's programs? He’s often criticized for the unequal amount of aid they received. What does that say about his leadership if anything?
I think its really important to understand that FDR was far from a perfect leader and he certainly didn't go far enough when it comes to promoting the rights of women and minorities. Now one reason for that is that there was a war within his own political party and I think that’s important to understand. Southern Democrats were only willing to accept his New Deal reforms if he excluded women and African Americans especially, so even though FDR himself and especially his wife Eleanor Roosevelt were personally very progressive on issues of gender and race, politically it was very difficult for Roosevelt to get reforms that included women and racial minorities or no reform would have passed because Democrats...had super majorities and they controlled a lot of committees in Congress so that without their support nothing would get passed. So you know the reason why, for example, Roosevelt never endorsed a federal anti-leaching law is directly related to the fact that he had to placate members of the Southern Democratic party in order to get other reforms through. But he did do a few important things and one of them was appointing Frances Perkins to the role of Labor Secretary. It was a first for women. Second, a lot of the Social Security and welfare legislation that passed really set the foundation for independent women and children and other reforms in America that affected women in particular. Lastly, we can say his embrace of labor unions became important. So if you look by the time you get to WWII there's at least a million, perhaps more, African Americans that are in labor unions and so because they're in these labor unions they're benefiting the same economic benefits that the union gets as white workers. So that’s an indirect benefit but its better than nothing.
So Roosevelt’s Court Packing plan failed and compromised the success of his future New Deal reforms. How do you think this reflects on his leadership and legacy?
Yeah, well Roosevelt I think made a mistake trying to pack the court. I wouldn’t argue though that his leadership was compromised as a result of it…so I'd say that Roosevelt's attempt to pack the court had good intention but the principle of trying to appoint all these Supreme Court justices really did interfere with the balance and checks of power in our federal government. The reason he did it, however, was that he was continually so frustrated by a Supreme Court that didn’t represent the interest and popular opinion of the American people, and that same court was invalidating some of the most important New Deal legislation. So his attempt to pack the court was an attempt to get the New Deal sanctioned and approved by the Supreme Court. Now the interesting thing is even though Roosevelt lost that fight, for other reasons the Supreme Court rendered some fissions in the 1930s that reauthorized some of Roosevelt's new deal programs so is that a coincidence or is it a result of his effort to pack the court...that's something interesting to think about.
That’s interesting... I'll look into that.
So one of the most important pieces of New Deal legislation was the Wagner act and it provided government protection for labor unions…the Supreme Court invalidated it but after the Court Packing fiasco, that Wagner act, the Supreme Court, they approved it.
What do you think is the most important legacy of FDR that Americans still feel today?
I think probably the most important thing is the idea of four freedoms which was his State of the Union in 1941 which summed up how he felt about the new deal…freedom from fear and freedom from want. Those are a work in progress…every person should have the ability to work and make a living wage and have a comfortable existence…so that rebranded the idea of what freedom meant and I think many of us are taken up by President Obama today. I don’t know if you heard the news today but President Obama was at Georgetown University today where he talked about how the government did have a role in solving poverty in America so that’s coming right out of FDR's legacy I think. The idea that government has the potential to do good things, that government can protect our basic human rights.
How has FDR left a legacy in modern politics and in policy?
Well, I would say FDR left a legacy in that he really inspired Americans to believe that they matter and that ordinary people if they organize can do really extraordinary things so it’s about grassroots organizing that helps do things in the larger interest of Americans. And I think today especially it's important for Americans to believe that they matter in government.
I think a whole number of leaders have been inspired by FDR since the 1940s. The most obvious one that comes to mind is President Lyndon B. Johnson. Johnson really tried to create a second version of the New Deal with his Great Society in the 1960s. Like Roosevelt I think Johnson imagined a democracy that had much more freedom and much more participation by everyday Americans. So the war on poverty of Lyndon B. Johnson, for example, you could directly trace back to FDR’s style of leadership and some of his policies in the New Deal. Of course the main difference though is that Johnson was dealing with 1960s America which was very prosperous whereas FDR was trying to get America out of its worst economic depression in its history. So that would be one person who I think sort of took off the mantle of FDR’s leadership and tried even to take it further.
Are there any others that you know of?
In some ways I think President Barack Obama has really embraced elements of FDR’s presidency. Some of his critics in fact have said he's very much like FDR and is trying to increase the power of the presidency but he's trying to do that I think out of good intentions, to try to expand our democracy, embrace working class Americans, and to try to get through some regulation and legislation that’s much needed to address economic and social inequality in this country. So those would be two examples.
What do you think were Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s most important leadership traits or skills?
Well, I think he had one skill in particular; it was that he inspired faith and hope in Americans and not just political leaders and other wealthier Americans but rather ordinary Americans got inspired by his rhetoric, his Fireside Chats, and his confidence that the American economy would one day bounce back form this depression. Another point I think would be his ability to experiment--he was willing to try new things, to see what worked what didn’t work and try to enhance the things that worked in terms of economic reform and to try to get the economy rolling again. So I think those two things are important. A third important leadership trait was, I think, that the New Deal under his administration was kind of a broker’s state. A broker's state means that he really relied on ordinary Americans to organize and lobby for reform. So many of Roosevelt's most important ideas actually didn’t come from him but came from other groups of Americans who were organizing and pushing for various reforms like old age pensions, social security, the right of labor unions to organize; all of those things became very key parts of the New Deal but none of them were actually Roosevelt's initial ideas. They were ideas that people in the United States organized a lot of other people and pushed him to endorse those ideas.
So how did FDR's confidence, courage, and empathy make him an effective leader?
Well, his confidence was important because people in the early part of the depression especially thought that Capitalism as an economic system had failed...So when he said the only thing to fear is fear itself, a lot of Americans understood what he meant and were really inspired by that idea and inspired by the idea that his leadership would create the confidence in America that would lead America to a better path.
What about courage and empathy?
Well, yeah, FDR was very courageous. He definitely wasn’t a politician who just decided to do more of the same; I think that’s a key difference between him and his predecessor Herbert Hoover who really didn’t inspire Americans in the same way--and you know obviously one thing that's very courageous about FDR is that he was battling his own disability all the while he was trying to lead America and show strength and leadership to America and the rest of the world. And so I think the third thing you mentioned was empathy and I think since Roosevelt had this disability he may have had more empathy than someone else of his particular class and social standing. Franklin Roosevelt was a bit of an aristocrat. He grew up in a very wealthy family and may not have had the ability to relate to the ordinary working class American people who were done on their luck and had various disabilities until he himself had to deal with that.
What would you say about the treatment of women and minorities through FDR's programs? He’s often criticized for the unequal amount of aid they received. What does that say about his leadership if anything?
I think its really important to understand that FDR was far from a perfect leader and he certainly didn't go far enough when it comes to promoting the rights of women and minorities. Now one reason for that is that there was a war within his own political party and I think that’s important to understand. Southern Democrats were only willing to accept his New Deal reforms if he excluded women and African Americans especially, so even though FDR himself and especially his wife Eleanor Roosevelt were personally very progressive on issues of gender and race, politically it was very difficult for Roosevelt to get reforms that included women and racial minorities or no reform would have passed because Democrats...had super majorities and they controlled a lot of committees in Congress so that without their support nothing would get passed. So you know the reason why, for example, Roosevelt never endorsed a federal anti-leaching law is directly related to the fact that he had to placate members of the Southern Democratic party in order to get other reforms through. But he did do a few important things and one of them was appointing Frances Perkins to the role of Labor Secretary. It was a first for women. Second, a lot of the Social Security and welfare legislation that passed really set the foundation for independent women and children and other reforms in America that affected women in particular. Lastly, we can say his embrace of labor unions became important. So if you look by the time you get to WWII there's at least a million, perhaps more, African Americans that are in labor unions and so because they're in these labor unions they're benefiting the same economic benefits that the union gets as white workers. So that’s an indirect benefit but its better than nothing.
So Roosevelt’s Court Packing plan failed and compromised the success of his future New Deal reforms. How do you think this reflects on his leadership and legacy?
Yeah, well Roosevelt I think made a mistake trying to pack the court. I wouldn’t argue though that his leadership was compromised as a result of it…so I'd say that Roosevelt's attempt to pack the court had good intention but the principle of trying to appoint all these Supreme Court justices really did interfere with the balance and checks of power in our federal government. The reason he did it, however, was that he was continually so frustrated by a Supreme Court that didn’t represent the interest and popular opinion of the American people, and that same court was invalidating some of the most important New Deal legislation. So his attempt to pack the court was an attempt to get the New Deal sanctioned and approved by the Supreme Court. Now the interesting thing is even though Roosevelt lost that fight, for other reasons the Supreme Court rendered some fissions in the 1930s that reauthorized some of Roosevelt's new deal programs so is that a coincidence or is it a result of his effort to pack the court...that's something interesting to think about.
That’s interesting... I'll look into that.
So one of the most important pieces of New Deal legislation was the Wagner act and it provided government protection for labor unions…the Supreme Court invalidated it but after the Court Packing fiasco, that Wagner act, the Supreme Court, they approved it.
What do you think is the most important legacy of FDR that Americans still feel today?
I think probably the most important thing is the idea of four freedoms which was his State of the Union in 1941 which summed up how he felt about the new deal…freedom from fear and freedom from want. Those are a work in progress…every person should have the ability to work and make a living wage and have a comfortable existence…so that rebranded the idea of what freedom meant and I think many of us are taken up by President Obama today. I don’t know if you heard the news today but President Obama was at Georgetown University today where he talked about how the government did have a role in solving poverty in America so that’s coming right out of FDR's legacy I think. The idea that government has the potential to do good things, that government can protect our basic human rights.
How has FDR left a legacy in modern politics and in policy?
Well, I would say FDR left a legacy in that he really inspired Americans to believe that they matter and that ordinary people if they organize can do really extraordinary things so it’s about grassroots organizing that helps do things in the larger interest of Americans. And I think today especially it's important for Americans to believe that they matter in government.